A working musician in Santiago (en español)

In our first episode en español (!!!), Rebecca interviews Mario Seguí Correoso, a Santiago-based percussionist who has worked with various groups over the course of his career: an innovative rumba group (Kokoyé), a son/salsa group (Sonora La Calle), and currently a more traditional son group (Los Jubilados), as well as a percussion-based group (Los Tambores de Enrique Bonne). We talk about how difficult the situation has been for musicians since the pandemic.

**IF YOU DON'T SPEAK SPANISH, CHECK OUT A TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONVERSATION TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QfvV7JelKB2tDjsNFkT_LxXPwOgUO89anRFCIAMMtMI/edit?usp=sharing

Songs played:

Manigueta, Los Tambores de Enrique Bonne
Calle Enramada, Los Jubilados
(title unknown), Grupo Folklórico Kokoyé

Transcript

Rebecca: Okay, let's get started. I want to welcome my friend Mayito. Mario Seguí Corrioso, who is a percussionist from Santiago, has worked with several groups in his career. I met him in 2005 and he gave me percussion lessons at that time because I wanted to learn a little bit about the folkloric genres of Santiago and the Oriente, because I was at that time doing my thesis on rumba, but I was interested in knowing a little bit about the folkloric music of Santiago as well. And then he was my percussion teacher and in 2005 he was working with a very good rumba group called Kokoyé.  Oh, by the way, I saw that Kokoye was going to perform at the Jazz Festival that is now taking place in Cuba, in Santiago and Havana. And then I had that doubt if the group was still active.

Rebecca: Later, Mayito started playing with a popular music group called Sonora la Calle and now he is playing with a Son group called Los Jubilados, which performs every week at the Casa de la Trova and also with a group that plays the drums of Enrique Bonne. Well, I'm interested that your career has really touched many genres and you have played with different groups.

Mario: Yes, of course.

Rebecca: Yes, yes, yes.  It's kind of interesting. You've played with folkloric rumba folkloric group after, like, a more danceable one. Well, although Los jubilados is danceable, Sonora La calle is danceable, but a little difference in sound no? And then you are also now playing with a percussion group... Can you explain a little bit what a percussion group is like...?

Mario: Well, the drums of Enrique Bonne, as I was saying, are a purely percussive group. We use conga drums, Tumbadora, Boku, Chekere, bell, cowbell and it is a group that we do popular dance music and we do son, we do pilon, Mozambique, we fuse some genres with Cuban music. It is quite an interesting group.

Rebecca: And in this episode I am also going to give some musical examples so that the audience can also hear some of the music we are talking about. I'm going to see if I can post recordings of all three...well, I don't know if Los Jubilados also has a recording.

Mario: Los Jubilados, of course they do.

 Rebecca: Right, right. Because I know Kokoyé, I have recordings of them, I have Sonora la calle and I think I can find all the groups you have worked with.

Rebecca: And the drums of Enrique Bonne. Talk a little bit, how old is that group?

Mario: This group was founded around. I don't know the exact number, but they are over 50 years old, 50-something, almost 60 years old. And imagine that of the founders of Los Tambores de Enrique Bonne, I think there is only one left. And the director Enrique Bonne, who is now well into his old age, is 97 years old.

Rebecca: Wow!

Mario: But of the founders as such, I believe only one remains in the group. All the rest are members who have joined the group over time. Do you understand? Me, I, for example, entered Los Tambores two months ago, in the month of November. And there are other members who joined two years before that, but I think there is only one of the founders left. Most of the others have already passed away.

Rebecca: Enrique Bonne created a few rhythms. For example, in the 60's there were new rhythms like Pilot, Mozambique, all those things. Did he create one of one of those rhythms?

Mario: Well, look, there's a dispute here. The creator of Pilón, for example, was Enrique Bonne. Precisely Enrique Bonne, the director of the group. They said that it was born in Havana. No, the creator of the Pilón, for example, was the master Enrique Bonne. He is a composer, arranger, he is an excellent musician. A man with many ideas. This group has been developing a very important work, I tell you, it is purely percussive and music is even popular that people can even dance.  

Rebecca: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Mario: Quite an interesting job.

Rebecca: Yeah, well, uh, I've noticed that that debate, if that's what we want to call it, that kind of debate, where did this genre come from, is something I have seen several times in the history of Cuban music.

Rebecca: No, and there always are. Most of all, let's just say,  rivalry between Havana and Santiago.

Mario: They said it was Pacho Alonso. Others said I don't know who, but really the story is that he created it, Enrique Bonne. Pacho Pacho Alonso popularized it. He began to sing his songs. It was then that he popularized it. Mhm. But the creator was Enrique Bonne.

Rebecca: And yet, for example, the numbers you all play, do you still play pilon?  

Mario: Yes, of course. In the group there are some of Enrique's own songs that are Pilón and are played with arrangements. Do you know what I mean? To have it done right now by the same director, Joaquín Solórzano, who is also an excellent percussionist, and all the songs, there are many of his songs. We play them. Right now we are participating in the Festival of Jazz. We also have the presentation. I do not know if it will be on the 25th, I think it is the 25th, it will be the presentation of Los Tambores.

Rebecca: Right, right. And he's still kind of playing with the group? Or is it more like the director...

Mario: No, no. No, no, no. I'm telling you, he's 97 years old. He doesn't go out anymore. He acts as a representative figure of the group, but at home. Okay, okay. Now, now, now, now there is a younger director, Joaquín Solórzano, who is an excellent percussionist here in Santiago and who is leading the group. But already Enrique Bonne as such, he hardly leaves his house anymore.

Rebecca: Well, yes, 97 years, quite a lot. How nice. Ah, well, so what I want to do now is that now I'm going to look for a song of Enrique Bonne's to give an example.

Rebecca: I wanted to talk about Los Jubilados now. It is a group that plays at the Casa de la Trova, more traditional music.

Mario: Pure traditional music, son above all. But we do boleros, we do son guaguancó. This group belongs to the agency, Son de Cuba, EGREM, and we perform at the Salón de los Grandes of La Trova in Santiago de Cuba.  

Rebecca: Yes. Los Jubilados, how old is the group?

Mario: Well, this group is about 60 years old. This group was made up of musicians who are called the retirees of Cuba, musicians who made music in their youth. And then after retirement, they agreed and made this group. They were already retired musicians who had retired from music. Do you understand? And then it was such an interesting project that they stayed in the group. Of course, there is no one left of those people either. Of the founders, there is no one left there. Everyone has already died. Los Jubilados are members who have joined the group over time, you understand? There is no one left of the founders either.

Mario: Because this group, when it was formed, when it was created, the members, the founders were around 68, 70 years old. Is it understood? Then they have passed away and others have come in. They have been passing away until none of the founders of the retirees are left.

Rebecca: Yes, because well, what I had the question that if it was a group that was formed ... You know that after the success of Buena Vista Social Club many new groups were formed...

Mario: It was before Buena Vista Social Club. I am telling you that this group was founded about 60 years ago. The Buenavista did not even think of coming to light yet. They were already formed as a group, Los Jubilados

Mario: I repeat, they were musicians whose careers were over, they had already retired. And then someone had the idea to unite a group, like Buenavista.

Rebecca: I'm going to find a number to play for people, what number do you suggest?

Mario: Café Havana? A very good number. They are from Santiago.  Enramada Street. These are very good numbers for Los Jubilados.

Rebecca: Enramada Street. I like it because that is the street where it is located. talk a little bit about Enramada Street and its importance to Santiago.

Mario: Ah, well, nothing. Enramada Street is the main avenue. It is a very busy street. Being the main street of Santiago de Cuba, it is the street where you can find all the stores, all the cafeterias, the mom-and-pop stores, most of the clothing stores, markets, businesses. That is a very important street there. It goes from where Enramada begins, which starts there by Plaza Marte to the Alameda. It is a boulevard.

Rebecca: Well, before I go on to talk about the other groups, I'm interested to know why you think you've worked with so many different groups. For example, from folklore to popular, often with mixing of the two. Interestingly, you have worked with a variety of groups. It is because it's easier to make a living that way or you like different genres or... 

Mario: Yes, I always liked to work. And in the meantime, of course, the more I worked, when I started with the Kokoye group, as you well know, I stayed with the group for about 20 years.

Rebecca: 20 years. Wow.

Mario: But I also became a member of the Orquesta Sonora la calle. Why? Because they toured Australia and a trumpet player stayed behind (defected), the percussionist too. And then the director, the director of Sonora, spoke to me, a neighbor of mine, and said look, Mayito, I need you to work with me because of this situation. So then I accepted the proposal and at the same time I was working with Kokoye, I worked with Sonora a la calle, and over time there were the international tours and a lot of work throughout Cuba, plus the international tours that I began to clash with the work of the group Kokoyé. And then I had to decide already. Which of the two groups would I choose? Then I decided. I leaned more towards popular music and continued with Sonora de la calle. Besides, it was a different kind of music, Cuban popular music understand? And I already had a great experience with Kokoyé and I decided to do another type of music which was Cuban popular music, which is what Sonora La Calle did, which is pure boleros, guaracha, and it was also a very, very important work in my musical career.

Rebecca: And currently Sonora La Calle is still active?

Mario: Well, that's what we were talking about. What is happening right now after the pandemic, like Sonora La Calle, like other groups here of popular music in Santiago de Cuba, have not done performances because there are no places to play. Some groups, the carnivals made one or two presentations, but that's as far as it went. Do you understand? That's why Cuban popular music, right now in Santiago de Cuba, I dare to say, that it is in the ground, it is in decline. Not because the musicians...It's that they're not performing or they're not working. And that's why the music is currently at a very, very low, very low level. 

Rebecca: But yes, it is not easy when there is no place to perform, no...you say, why rehearse?

Mario: I had to look for another job. Because about three or four years after the pandemic ended here in Cuba, I wasn't working with Sonora la calle and I had to go out to look for work. with Los Tambores de Enrique Bonne, which is a group that is subsidized, a group that has work every week, they have functions and have their salary. Los Jubilados are not subsidized, but EGREM guarantees them work, eight or nine jobs a month, and they have salaries too. And then musicians like me have had to do the same thing. Go to other groups, especially subsidized ones, which have to guarantee your salary every month. Do you understand?

Rebecca: Can you can explain to people what subsidized means...Talk a little bit about that.

Mario: Musicians in Cuba are divided into two groups. Subsidized musicians are what the Cuban state protects. That is to say, it protects your salary, rain, thunder or shine, every month you have your salary, do you understand? Then there are the performance musicians that, for example, what Sonora la calle used to be, which are the groups that earn when they perform. If they work, they can earn; if they don't work, they don't earn. Do you understand? So now, because there is no work, no place to work and no places where they can work, of course they don't earn. They do not receive any money. Do you understand?  And then the groups are like that one, who are in disarray, but the subsidized ones are not, because they are protected by the Cuban State, their salary protects them. Every year, they have their salary, a budget that the government allocates to the subsidized groups. Do you understand? Look here, for example in Santiago I can quote you. Look, the [inaudible] orchestra is subsidized.  The concert band is subsidized. The Trova band, guitar and troubadours are subsidized. So are, for example, Los Tambores de Enrique Bonne are subsidized. There are two, three other groups just like that.

Rebecca: For example, I imagine that, Cutumba, Ballet Folklorico Oriente, no?

Mario: They are also protected. They belongs to another company, Artes Escénicas, but are also protected by the State. Yes, they have their salary every month.  Do you understand? The Cutumba, Folklorico de Oriente, Danza del Caribe, these groups are protected by the State. The groups, the performance groups, which are what if you don't work, you don't win. Do you understand?

Rebecca: Yes, yes, yes. And we must also talk a little bit about ... Which is, uh, with the unification of the two currencies and the inflation that has been horrendous in Cuba and so, yes, salaries have gone up quite a bit, but it is not even remotely enough.

Mario: Of course not, because it was for me, for my way of thinking, for me it was a mistake, in the midst of the pandemic, they tried to do an economic reordering, as they call it.

Rebecca: I do not understand [why they did that].

Mario: Me neither, in the middle of the pandemic, they did a reordering. They raised wages, of the workers, but automatically they also raised all prices of products. And then there is an inflation that wages right now are not in line with prices, especially food prices, right? For example here right now, a simple worker's salary is 2,500 Cuban pesos. But when you go to see, pork meat is 500 pesos, if you understand the chicken it is 300 pesos. When you look at that worker's salary, always with the prices, they can't even buy a pound of meat because either they buy a pound of meat, they run out of almost all their salary. If you pay for the electricity, pay for the water, how do you pay for the other things? And then there is a huge gap between salaries and products that are too much. High prices. Too expensive. That's what happens.

Rebecca: And another thing I noticed in Santiago. And I actually noticed a difference when I went to Havana this time. It was that well, in Santiago in December for the Christmas days I saw almost no tourists, but I saw no one, there was no one. I don't know if it got a little better by the end of the year. And in Havana, I saw a little more, I saw more.

Mario: Tourism in these recent years, in these last years in Cuba has decreased quite a lot, of course. I can give you an example. I have a friend who right now is working in Varadero, which Varadero is supposed to be the largest tourist town in Cuba and he says that right now in Varadero there is a shortage of tourism which was expected. At this time of the year, when we are in the middle of the tourist season, if there were more than 50,000, I don't know, 30,000 tourists, they say that this year almost no one has gone there. And I tell you this has also been in the wake of the pandemic. Also all that has influenced the pandemic right here, the city of Santiago...Well, you go to Enramada, for example, and you run into one or two tourists and turn around Santiago and you run into three or four tourists that can be counted. Here, too, the influence of tourism has already diminished. Santiago in this same season, full season should be crowded with tourism.

Mario: Tourists come to Santiago, and from there they leave for Baracoa, for Trinidad. I don't know why they don't stay in Santiago. I also tell you that Santiago, in my opinion, is very de-commercialized in terms of tourism.  It is highly de-commercialized. Santiago right now, that area of Baconao, which was a highly touristic area, they have let it be destroyed, the beaches up there in that area of Baconao are destroyed. The Museum of Prehistory, the Valley of the Ancient Cars Museum. All that is finished. They were places where tourism went a lot. So it seems that when those places disappear, since in Santiago the tourists come here and go to El Morro. They go to Cobre and go to La Trova. Those are the places that if you go to the beach for a day, the part of Chibirico, which is where the best beaches are, and nowadays it is not like it used to be. It is not as it was before, they went here, they went there, they went to Bacunao. Do you understand? All that has been destroyed. The Cuban State has allowed it to be destroyed.

Rebecca: And also, well, one thing I saw, what really surprised me in Havana, where I saw more tourism, but especially in the part of Old Havana and around there, and it was true that I had not been to Havana for about eight years. I had been to Santiago more recently, but in Havana, as I saw new and large hotels and but people say they are empty. I know you must know about that huge K tower hotel they are building, which is tall but it displaces Havana Libre completely.

Mario: Yes, the one they did there, on the Malecón and Prado.

Rebecca: Mo, that's another one. That's one they're doing near Vedado, near La Habana Libre, which is very high. And I say, but then you are walking on the street, you see the mountains and mountains of garbage. But it's a shame. It is extremely embarrassing. 

Mario: This is characteristic of Havana. Yes. Havana. Despite being the capital of Cuba, I dare say it is one of the dirtiest and most disgusting cities I have ever been to. The corners, the mountains of garbage and they are there for days and days and days. And the blue tanks that they put out are overflowing with garbage. No, no, no, no, it's horrible, it's horrible that.

Rebecca: I say Okay, but at the same time they are building huge hotels and there is no such great tourism to fill those hotels.

Mario: That I would say is from material and wasting money. What are you really going to build a hotel of that size for, when you know that you will never fill it with tourists? If a tourist or two would go, but whether it is a hotel of I don't know how many rooms or I don't know, a huge expenditure of money and a hotel that will never give you the money you are going to be able to save because there is no tourism and besides that hotel is never full, eh? These are crazy things the government does.

Rebecca: And yet they do not collect garbage, they do not respond. I see that the government no longer responds to the needs of the people.

Mario: The government is lost.

Rebecca: And that's the saddest thing. How can you invest so much in tourism and leave people without medicine.

Mario: Making 50 or 50-story hotels. See? But hey, they are what they know. They know what they're doing. 

Rebecca: And so, that's the thing that hurts me the most when I see those things, because Cuba still. What I saw in Cuba this time, in spite of everything and how bad is the economy and inflation and people are still suffering. I see that beautiful spirit of the people, uh, the musicians playing with tremendous joy. But it hurts because the government is not nurturing that talent.

Mario: The government is not interested in anything, Becca. The government? They have accommodated themselves, they have accommodated their children, they have accommodated their family and now the people, what we say to each other, are fucked, you understand?

Rebecca: I wanted to play another musical example. I don't know if you can suggest one, but I would like to play some of the Kokoyé. And you talk a little bit about the group, because it is also a group that does a very interesting rumba style but above that also does other genres of folklore.

Mario: The company is a very well-rounded company. Because it's not just about rumba, right? What happens, that the musicians that make up, uh, this company, the founders of Kokoyé came from a rumba group called Los Rumberitos, a rumba group. We were, we were all youngsters, teenagers, 17, 16, 18 years old. And then that's a musician that we came from that group. We were what made up the Kokoyé company when it started. But we didn't just do rumba, Kokoyé did Haitian music, merengue, we did, uh, ballet. They danced to Haitian music, voodoo, gagá, eh, diche, but the forte of the Kokoye was always the rumba. But it is because of the transcendence that we musicians brought, that we were the founders of Kokoye. And we came from a rumba group. So much so that the Kokoyé group was the one that created the Rumba Peña at the Casa del Caribe.  La Casa del Caribe is located in Vista Alegre and is a neighborhood, as we say, a white neighborhood. And there were groups that tried to make the peña there in the Casa del Caribe, in Siroa, in the ICAP. And the Kokoye group, which belonged to the Casa del Caribe, we started going there every Sunday, every Sunday, every Sunday, until the group became very popular. Actually that peña was created more than 25 years ago. And on Sundays it was everybody. Let's go to the Casa del Caribe to see Kokoyé and the peña was created this way, but it was with blood, sweat and tears. Then later, they gave Kokoyé a rehearsal site in the Duple, in the Duple cinema, which is in the district. And it left the space to a group called Rumbaché, a group that does rumba, which was not a stable group. They don't play one or two Sundays go by and they don't play. So, it has lost strength a little bit. Yes, but that is why Kokoyé is defined more as a rumba group, because its musicians originally came from the group Los Rumberitos.

Mario: And then the forte of all of us was to do the rumba. But no, the company Kokoyé, a company of high quality and prestige, because I tell you, they do everything. And very good choreographers have passed through there, such as Antonio Perez, do you understand? He is one of the most important folkloric choreographers in the city. He was the director of the Ballet Folklorico de Oriente for 25 years. Right now the Kokoye is enjoying good health. Now they have a director named Maceo, who has also taken it forward and recently they premiered a new work on December 27th. A very nice work, very good. And so the company right now is doing well.

Rebecca: How is the state of the music? At least in Santiago and how are the musicians now? How are you doing? And we've talked quite a bit already, I don't know if there's anything you want to add.

Mario: I was telling you that right now Santiago, because of the Jazz Festival day that is taking place, started yesterday from Havana to Santiago. There is an air of, uh, enthusiasm for the musicians. But deep down I dare to say that because of what Santiago's music is going through, right now the musicians are very unhappy, they are very disillusioned because of what I told you about being without work and without practicing the profession they like. They are very, very, very upset. At least here in Santiago. Especially those who are not working. Do you understand? Santiago was declared a city of music and a creative city, and it seems to me that it was all for nothing, because right now the groups, as I said, are not working.

Mario: And now after the end of the jazz festival, which ends on the 28th, Santiago is a dead city. A city without, without nightlife. Only the Trova at work. The trova that works as you saw, every day in the afternoon and at night at 10:00 p.m., Salón de los grandes. But the city is dead as soon as the festival is over. 

Rebecca: Well, the only thing I can tell people is, go to Santiago. Do not stop in Havana, do not stay only in Havana, because Santiago is a very beautiful city physically, geographically it is a very beautiful city, surrounded by mountains and has a different spirit from Havana. The people are warmer, the music, you find it wherever you want. It is really worth coming to Santiago. It's a little far from Havana, but it's worth it and you have to support the musicians. And well, I don't know, you are going to have a tremendous experience if you go.

Rebecca: Thank you very much for talking to me. It was not easy to organize this interview because of the technology mess and the fact that this government is also wrong, this American government that wants to block certain things from Cuba like Zoom and other applications, which doesn't make any sense. But I'm very glad to have you and share your experiences with my audience.

Mario: Thank you Rebecca. I am also very grateful that you did this interview with me because for me it is also a pleasure to share with you for the work you're doing.

Rebecca: Hugs Mayito.

Mario: Love to you and the family and I hope to see you soon.

Rebecca: Ok, ciao.